So, what's next?
zloirock opened this issue · comments
Hey, Denis!
Just wanted to ask, which platform is taking less fee for donations? Patreon or OpenCollective? If I can pick either of them, which one will be more profitable for you?
Hi Igor! In both cases commission is significant. IIRC via Patreon, it's a little less. However, there are some reasons why now I'd prefer Open Collective. Anyway, both options are good.
hey @zloirock heartbreaking story. I feel you. I run a commercial open source company over at https://github.com/calcom/cal.com and have shared your post with colleagues of mine who might be hiring.
maybe even vercel.com? could be a great fit
You're literally the embodiment of that XKCD and we didn't even know... Thank you for all your hard work on core-js, you've carried the whole modern Era of the web on your back this whole time. I'll do my best to share this around in hopes that people will read it and re-share it until opportunities arise. Will definitely want to support monthly to the best of my abilities. In hopes I can get a budget at work to support crucial FOSS like core-js
Set it adrift. Focus on family. The community at large will pick it up and maintain it. Your legacy is intact. Such is FOSS.
Patreon sub added. Thanks for all the hard work! No doubt you've saved me many thousands of hours over the years!
dude, i had no idea. been using this quite a lot for the past while now! open collective or bitcoin better for you?
The hate you got for this was really unjustified.
When I hear stories like this "Never was so much owed by so many to so few" always springs to mind
Thanks for taking such an extraordinary amount of time to write that up and explain everything. I had no idea, and I genuinely feel bad for you, especially since you're also a victim and collateral damage of the Ukraine conflict which makes supporting you unnecessarily more difficult than it already was. I found this link from kind souls who shared it on Reddit. I'll be sharing this across our company to see if something can be done.
What you built with core-js is amazing. Hope everything gets better for you. ❤️
@zloirock, thank you for all your work on this project. Really heartbreaking story.
I always knew core-js is a complex project and result is used by the whole community, but I couldn't imagine nobody pay for that.
I wish you'll get nice job with decent pay!
For now I can only support you with couple coffee cups a month. Subscribed on open collective
Thank you for writing this up and espousing your values. I think they're great, but yeah, like family & surviving is first, right?
Saving the "well-paid engineers'" time should be lower priority?
Your post is a great read thank you for taking your time out to write it.
I see a lot of projects with multiple licensing; one for open source, and another for commercial.
Given you have evidence (extremely) large companies are using your product, could you add tiered license structure? core-js is free until you earn $1M per year - then it's $200 per month flat?
The businesses your project lives within are mandated by software laws and your project exists because the task is hard.
Fundamentally most people are using your project because they don't have the time or ability to do it themselves.
Large corps such as a international shop know this - and it's cheaper to pay ~$2k rather than employ someone. As software licenses are bound to the product cost (where FOSS contributions are primarily optional) big companies have the option to pay ahead on their internal budgeting.
It's evident you've paid forward (for many years) to those earning from you - It's fair to ask for like 0.002% in return.
If a company/entity who can afford it, will not pay - and you're struggling to exist to support them - then it's up to them to repair that problem.
I understand easy for me to sit on my soap-box and yell foul, however it doesn't feel right that your product is used by large corporations, and you're barely surviving - when there are other lesser critical tools of which demand much more.
That's fucked up. The kind of hate you received is insane, that's actually heartbreaking. It sucks to live in a world with that kind of self-entitled morons.
I really hope you'll get more recognition and donations after this post, and even if I've never used core-js directly myself, thanks for making the web a better place.
@zloirock Hey man. I'm sorry you had to go through of all that. Thank you for sharing your story. It was eye-opening.
I'm sending $100 your way.
I've never donated that much in one go -- but maybe I should start doing so. I have paid more for less useful things than core-js. Your work has made mine faster, and I got paid for it. I will start paying more attention to how the projects I use are maintained.
The FOSS community needs to find a solution for the kinds of people and projects like this. I’m sorry you went through so much and received so much hate.
never knew core-js was so relevant for most of my own work (in and out of office work), yet I've seen it lying around more than once.
I'm grateful for your dedication and I'll be monthly backing you with what I can over OpenCollective.
It's not great that github sponsors isn't available for you. But for other open source devs who are able to use it, imo they should stop with the 'if you can chip in with a dollar' words. Instead, ask for decent amounts of money; you only need a few large sponsors to make a big difference - here are the words I use: https://gist.github.com/Danack/f99f417a43fc8258babc26704b28f72f
And this is the type of project that AWS should be sponsoring imo. Maybe people could chime in, respectfully of course, here: https://twitter.com/MrDanack/status/1625278550667587584 ?
The FOSS community needs to find a solution for the kinds of people and projects like this. I’m sorry you went through so much and received so much hate.
There are solutions, but for "bigger" software than this; the RHEL subscription model, the open core model, etc. idk how it would apply to core-js though.
You have to be compensated. I'm thankful for you sharing your story which is super illuminating to people that don't know what's going on behind the scenes. Many many great projects are open source and they are the fundamentals of modern web development. I suggest to create a common fund and support projects that clearly deserve it. Actual grants by people using it.
I want to express my sincere gratitude for the tireless and dedicated work you have done in the field of open source. Your project is a true testament to your passion and commitment to improving people's lives through technology.
Unfortunately, it is a shame that you have not received proper financial support to continue your work. I hope you soon find the necessary funding to continue improving and developing your project.
Furthermore, I would like to suggest that you share your progress on platforms such as Twitter. This way, the developer community can see what you are doing and support your efforts. I also apologize on behalf of all other developers. It is not that they do not want to help, I believe many of them simply take for granted that the project is being maintained and are not aware of the importance of your work.
Asking for help openly and sharing your roadmap with the community would be the best option to receive the necessary support to continue your efforts. I am sure that many developers would be willing to help if they knew how they could do so.
And please ignore any negative comments, those kind of people just need to be reformed in some way.
The story was eye-opening and heartbreaking. I admire your resilience in developing core-js. I sent some money.
All these big-co's bragging about how they support open-source and whatnot, yet it's all mostly smoke screen. In the end, all that matters for them is profit. The behavior of TC39 members is also just... pathetic.
I wish you all the best. Pay off debt, leave Russia with your family, and safely get to the civilized world.
Thank you, seriously. core-js is the backbone of the modern web, and can directly be linked to millions of dollars in cost savings. I will make a donation to you.
I hope your family is okay, it must be hard for them to see their husband and father be abused in this manner.
It's not great that github sponsors isn't available for you. But for other open source devs who are able to use it, imo they should stop with the 'if you can chip in with a dollar' words. Instead, ask for decent amounts of money; you only need a few large sponsors to make a big difference - here are the words I use: https://gist.github.com/Danack/f99f417a43fc8258babc26704b28f72f
And this is the type of project that AWS should be sponsoring imo. Maybe people could chime in, respectfully of course, here: https://twitter.com/MrDanack/status/1625278550667587584 ?
This is great I suggest OP to use this model so that big companies see the value. Meaning paying monthly = higher priority to their requests. Plus a premium model where you personally help companies save that extra few seconds that are worth billions to companies like Amazon. You have such knowledge and experience to make it happen.
Sometimes it's enough to show how little changes can make big impacts like your story.
You are a hero. An underpaid, shit upon, taken for granted hero, but you wear a cape nonetheless and your tireless (and unpaid) work has enabled millions of us to better build applications that help us feed our families and make our customers happy. Thank you for all that you do. I'll talk to my CTO about making a donation as we're already a supporter for a few projects on github that we use. Thanks for taking the time to write up this comprehensive post sharing how the sausage gets made and a big 'fuck you' to all the people shitting on your work or you having the gall to ask to not be impoverished for this thankless work that you do. You're an excellent developer and I hope you are rewarded richly for your work as you deserve to be.
The amount of hate you received, while working so tirelessly and for so little money is just horrible. I want to thank you the insurmountable amount of work you have done for us all, so we can all build better apps with less to worry about.
I'll try making a donation and I encourage everyone else to do so. Spread the word!
I think you need to get help from a therapist, you don't owe anything to the world. Archive this rep, go find proper 8 to 5 job (remote so you don't even need to work really) and have a great life.
Do companies like @opencollective or @Patreon use your polyfill and maybe they can turn off commission on your accounts, at least temporarily?
https://github.com/opencollective
https://github.com/Patreon
Do companies like @opencollective or @Patreon use your polyfill and maybe they can turn off commission on your accounts, at least temporarily?
https://github.com/opencollective https://github.com/Patreon
Yep, Patreon uses it. If anyone, this guy absolutely deserves it. The creativity, and the whole Patreon website is powered by this library, not just by "membership".
@EnderNon between Open Collective and BTC I'd prefer BTC because of the lack of commission.
The community at large will pick it up and maintain it.
I used to think the same. Then I became disillusioned with this.
@rpadovani I didn't know about him, but someone already wrote me about him today. I'll take a look, thanks -)
Do companies like @opencollective or @Patreon use your polyfill and maybe they can turn off commission on your accounts, at least temporarily?
https://github.com/opencollective https://github.com/Patreon
Time to put pressure on the companies using core-js to support it. Let's start with Patreon:
https://twitter.com/TashFeneko/status/1625294257731805190
Thank you for all the hard work and time you've given, and I hope everything gets better for you and your family. ❤️
@zloirock This wont mean much coming from a nobody. But thank you for everything, you are truly an inspiration. The hate you've received is honestly disgusting and unjustified. Gonna admit i never knew anything about core-js before this. And am appalled at how the community has received your pleas for help and donations.
I don't have much to give sadly, but hoping any little bit helps here.
Wish you and your family all the best, hope you find a place worth your amazing talent.
Hey @zloirock,
i just read your story today and i was kinda disappointed how unfair life sometimes is. I’m super melancholic and emotional lol.
I would really like to offer you help with corejs but I’m a junior engineer and have just too much going on in life.
Also, I’d really like to get in touch with you for a job. We are actually looking for Frontend engineers. We a are medium sized, remote first company (about 300 employees after a merge) located in Germany / Finland / Remote all over the world. The only issue is, you’re located in Russia and because of the political situation, idk if that’s possible. In our company, recommendations are almost everything so I could definitely get you in touch with one of the leads. Let me just tell you in advance, they would be happy to hear your story as much as I was happy reading about it just now.
If you know a way, where maybe you can relocate to Europe or at least anywhere in the world besides Russia, I’m sure I can do something for you. But the only thing blocking all this is Russia, man fuck the war..
Best wishes
Siri
Thanks for all your hard work, I had no idea.
Hi @zloirock , I'd be happy to maintain corejs if you want to give up or just need help.
@olalonde you could start with helping with some issues - some of them marked as help wanted - and then we'll see -)
I really would like to thank you for your work.
I donated a very small amount of money because of costs this month. I will try to setup monthly donations next month.
You're too good for this world.. I've got 1 boy and 1 girl, family is important and I hope you can find the time to enjoy them.
Again, thank you and sorry that the 'community' let you down multiple times.
Can't you just say you work for x$ an hour and patrons decide which things you work on? If there's no money for you to work, don't do the work. There's a difference between free software and free labour.
Life is unfair to those who just want to silently focus on the work they love. Yours was an eye-opening story. Whatever you decide, I wish you the best.
Not a JS / front end dev but I feel you nevertheless. Thank you for everything you had done.
Burn. It. Down. #WeDontDeserveCoreJS
Thank you so much for doing everything you did! I can't believe this was such a thankless job.
thanks for all the hard work
I appreciate what you are doing. I don't use this project (and I avoid transpilers in general), but I can see how your work is great. I wish things resolve in your favor ❤️
Few points on the top of my mind in very disperse order, in no way I want to attack your work or project.
First and foremost: I have (unknowingly) introduced it in one big project and it's so deeply rooted into npm ecosystem that I tried to remove it from the project one time (just to test if we could do it without) with zero success but absolutely thank you for the time I saved into looking about creating or finding silly polyfills around the internet.
The fact that core-js comes along automatically with Babel and works totally transparently hurts a lot for your financial ask, I won't blame people who don't know they are using it.
In fact I find it a quite twisted sick joke that Babel has a good solid funding and yet they donated only 5k to your project.
I wholeheartedly approve the idea of making it a commercial project or start restricting usage to companies with a revenue exceeding a certain threshold: a licensing method UnrealEngine alike if you want to pass my term and a business model that is fair for developers with personal projects.
On a closing note: I wasn't aware of other donating methods apart opencollective (which I am not heavily fond/sure of) and I am often reticent to contribute or do FOSS for a large part of my work day for the very same reasons you are struggling for: I can't pay rent or food with GitHub stars.
Understanding the situation I'll start to donate a small token of appreciation monthly hoping other Devs like me join even for a stupid dollar or two, but I am sure hundreds of us will make surely the difference.
Hoping you'll take the right choice for your own sanity and wellbeing I wish all my best.
Am I the only one who understood @Jason-Terry 's comment as being in support of CoreJS?
'we' (the community) don't deserve CoreJS. So let's see what happens to the community if it suddenly disappears?
As a student developer who unfortunately doesn't have access to a stable-paying job or other source of income, I'm unable to really do much to help out 😢.
I feel the same way you do about the state of FOSS and its relationship to large corporations. It's quite disappointing how companies like Microsoft and Amazon "support" open source yet do very little to contribute to it, instead preferring to blunder the money to mere gimmicks like OpenAI ChatGPT. If, for example, Microsoft truly devoted just 10% of the $1B investment it made in OpenAI to the FOSS ecosystem, it would be thriving for years to come. Yet, none of the largest companies engage in this sort of behavior, and it's disheartening for me, especially because I'm considering a future career path in tech.
While I am not nearly as experienced in the JavaScript ecosystem as you are, I'd love to help out with anything possible, no matter how small or trivial.
Genuinely, I wish you the best with whatever you choose to do in the future.
If you really want to continue development on core-js, any issues filed should be prioritized based on how much they pay you on a monthly basis, with one-time contributions divided by 36 months and allotted to their respective tier of support. Nobody should expect work on their issues without giving some form of compensation in return: Your time isn't free for others to take.
Your story is heart wrenching. I'm so sorry for what you've dealt with over all these years. I'm hoping and praying that this post will resonate throughout the web community and bring you tons of opportunities. Thank you for everything you've done for open source. Sending a donation now ❤️
Hopefully your situation improves as a result of your post and you receive the remuneration/recognition/support you deserve. Best of luck!
After reading this story here are my 2 cents:
- Thank you for your work and dedication. I noticed multiple projects I work on are using core-js. I will discuss with each team and decide on appropriate contribution amounts.
- It's great that you acknowledge some of the mistakes you made along the way. However you also need to use them as experience and foundation to build on. It's critical that you focus on finding financial stability and safe environment. Your contribution to the community would be appreciated much better once you are out of Russia and you don't need to worry about food on the table and covering the needs for your loved ones. Your absence for 10 months is a great proof that it's possible to take a leave for a while, solve your personal problems and come back whenever you are ready. As someone with a family there is no project on this world that could justify jeopardizing their safety and well being.
- Your message is loud and clear and it will resonate well with many simple people like me. However I think your targeting is off. Unless you believe that individual developers are the one who should pay for this project. Which I personally don't think is the case. And if your target audience is the businesses then the problem is that the language you are using is detrimental in the corporate world we live in. In other words corporations want to see big picture, charts, potential, opportunities, future. This might sound harish and I apologize, but from the position as someone who often participates in corporate conversations it's much easier to sell a promising story than an ultimatum.
Again I appreciate everything you've done so far and really hope you and your family recover as quickly as possible.
If you’re in the position to send this guy some cash, please don’t scroll past and forget like everyone else. Make the right choice.
As a developer of such an important project, it was the right instinct to continue maintaining it, but at what cost? The world is selfish and there are people like you who'd care for this project like their own child.
Denis, much love. I'm amplifying this on my socials and I'll be talking to my employer to see what we can do for open source sponsorship. No guarantees. Lastly, I'll be setting up a patreon.
I hope you find employment soon and a stable income rather than doing this thankless job and receiving hate.
I've seen that core-js donation message so many times and always figured you must be inundated with awesome job offers given how widely used and useful core-js is. I am honestly shocked reading this, not only by how little support you've received for your work on core-js, but also by how awfully you've been treated by the community.
This was one of the most touching and interesting posts I've ever read. I wish there was some way I could help, but I felt compelled to at least leave a comment saying thank you for all your work on core-js – you are appreciated.
Whatever you decide to do next, please make sure your first priority is your family's wellbeing. It's clear how much you care about this project, but you deserve to at least earn a reasonable income for your time. If an opportunity comes your way, you should take it. You don't owe the web or the FOSS community anything.
Hey @zloirock, I know comments won't help you feed your son and wife, but as an open source maintainer working on projects that require nothing but a fraction of the time you dedicate to this project, I really admire your tenacity and the drive that kept you working on this project for so long despite the sheer amount of undeserved hatred thrown your way.
I sincerely hope things get better for you -- you deserve it.
I can't make any promises, but I'll try to reach out. As others have mentioned, companies may be reluctant to fund you because of how vile media outlets can be with their ways of twisting words, especially in the middle of a war, but still, I'll give it a try.
Good luck :)
You have no idea how much I admire you after read what you've been through. I sincerely hope your situation improves, and of course I'll support the project.
Wishing you all the best luck!
Thanks for you work, I'll donate $50 to $100 monthly, although I think the donate from individuals only decrease the donate possibility from the big company.
And share our usage of core-js: our company not use core-js too much because we only support ES2022+ browsers.
It is a heart breaking post.
Please understand, there is no free lunch and nothing should be given out for free for long term. Consider changing your license, It is free for open source and paid for commercial usage.
Look for an employment for couple of years and do open source work part time. This will bring financial stability.
It is a heart breaking post.
Please understand, there is no free lunch and nothing should be given out for free for long term. Consider changing your license, It is free for open source and paid for commercial usage.
Look for an employment for couple of years and do open source work part time. This will bring financial stability.
This is the way. 100% agree that a license change is probably the best way forward.
I can't support you financially since I'm just a student right now but good work on core-js, I had to deal web development during my internship and stuff like core-js and babel definitely helped make it easier.
I think it's nothing need for TOP 1000 websites, just calling TOP 100 websites to give a hand!!
Reading this made me think about Gitcoin Grants. Its purpose is to fund open-source public goods that we rely on. core-js must be relied on by pretty much every Web3 project, so it should be a clear public-good deserving of grant funding. I had a quick search and didn't find core-js listed in any previous funding rounds. https://gitcoin.co/
I don't have much money to sponsor, but my Russian brother, I will always support you.🫡
I'm so sorry you went through all of this ❤️
It's awful to hear how badly you've been treated when you've created such a great resource for the community mate.
Most people would have called it quits long ago and either walked away or swapped it to a commerical project. I hope whatever comes from this you can either be paid appropriately for your time or you can move onto more enjoyable endeavors.
Don't waste your life supporting all these ungrateful people for nothing.
I just read your story. I am sorry that the open source community failed you for so long. Hope this won't be the case now.
so sad, donated a little money.
Hello @zloirock
My sympathies first of all. It’s horrible bad luck paired with a lack of human empathy beyond your own that’s making your situation difficult.
I sent you a donation. I have some feedback.
Put the donation links at the top of your post. It took a long time to find how to donate. Make it easy for people to help you. It’s not greedy to ask for a donation when that’s what you clearly need to keep the lights on.
I hope you receive many more donations!
Hello Denis,
The transactions fees for Bitcoin are high, can we donate in another cryptocurrency?
I don't have much and am struggling by myself, the dust I send will just barely get you a cup of coffee, probably negligible to cash out on an exchange, but I want to support you in some ways.
Monero or Litecoin or anything with lower fees would be great.
Thank you for your relentless work!
@zloirock , You don't owe anything to anyone. Prioritize well-being and future of you and your family. Stars and appreciations don't pay rent and groceries.
请问可以通过哪种方式赞助啊？我想以个人名义赞助些，虽然微不足道，但依然希望表达感激。
我们的日常只有 微信支付、支付宝支付、银行卡转账等付款方式。
有好心人可以教教我怎么赞助，以及赞助到哪里吗
找到了一个赞助地方，我研究下怎么转
https://opencollective.com/core-js/donate?interval=oneTime&amount=20&name=&legalName=&email=
-- 已借同事的 VISA 卡完成赞助
I truly admire your dedication to this project, and the fact that you have been able to put up with so much negativity for so long. I fear, however, that this dedication may in fact be working against you.
People take what they have for granted, while on the other hand, getting funding for your project is as much about building a brand and connections as it is about the relevance of your work. Because you have been working so tirelessly for so long, core-js is pretty much "assumed" to work, and few people know who's behind it (or know only about the drama around the funding message).
I suggest taking at least a step back from core-js development. Accept one of those job offers. Get to know people, build connections. Get your financial situation in order. Strictly timebox the time you spend on core-js (if any).
I see two possibilities happening then: core-js may still survive, although with slower updates and less support. That's not necessarily a bad thing; as much as I also like striving for perfection, sometimes good enough is just... enough. The other possibility is that core-js may start breaking down due to the accumulated unimplemented features/bugs. Then the companies using it will face a choice: contribute, take over development, or look for alternatives.
Whichever of the above happens, you will only benefit.
@eofom yep.
Legendary post —and work! 💪
请问可以通过哪种方式赞助啊？
我们的日常只有微信支付、支付宝支付、银行卡转账等支付方式。PayPal可以吗，可以的话，我去创建一个账号。
有好心的人可以教我怎么赞助，以及赞助到哪里吗
https://opencollective.com/core-js 这里可以捐，Readme最后有写捐款方式，可以选择PayPal，绑定银行卡就可以了
请问可以通过哪种方式赞助啊？我想以个人名义赞助些，虽然微不足道，但依然希望表达感激。
我们的日常只有 微信支付、支付宝支付、银行卡转账等付款方式。PayPal 可以吗，可以的话，我去创建一个账号。
有好心人可以教教我怎么赞助，以及赞助到哪里吗
You can use PayPal at patreon
你可以使用PayPal来付款patreon平台，PayPal可以绑定大陆银行卡。
I would add a separate link for "one time domain" and point to it to open collective's one time donation page: https://opencollective.com/core-js/donate?interval=oneTime
Additionally, maybe setup a crypto wallet using Keplr
Денис, в истории многих компаний и даже отдельных проектов не было ни дня чтобы их инфраструктура прожила без твоего вклада.
Earning millions without contributing to the project that helped generate and save those millions is a common trait among large corporations. It is unfortunate to see that a significant portion of the FOSS community was not able to support the project during its time of need. I am grateful for all the hard work and effort put into the project over the years and hope that the future holds better opportunities for the project and you.
Unfortunately, I am not in a position to help or make a donation, but I will share this article within the Free and Open-Source Software community in the hope that it may reach someone who is able to offer support.
可以将加密货币作为赞助载体。正在尝试将metamask里为数不多的ETH转赠出来。
https://opencollective.com/core-js
祝好
Transaction Details:
https://etherscan.io/tx/0x2bd4a9f3e369037974f859c12a41b31663a64af38343c3c07bd3f745d1761ee4
Heart Broken. I can't even image how much you've sufferred these years. Wish you the best🫡
Hope you get what you need man. Sending positive thoughts
Why not open a "GitHub Sponsor", who has no fees.
And it's convenient for people who want to sponsor.
This is capitalism in action, the final step, extracting from the workers and giving them back nothing at all. One person can't do much about that, but I donated what I could.
It was very heartbreaking to read. I donated a little and will keep supporting your work. 🚀
Why not open a "GitHub Sponsor", who has no fees. And it's convenient for people who want to sponsor.
GitHub sponsors? It's not available for Russia and never was. PayPal? It's banned for Russians.
https://github.com/zloirock/core-js#what-do-you-think-how-much-money-core-js-earn-for-a-month
0% of people whining ITT about the war in Ukraine demand to starve every American computer programmer in spite of the US's horrific track record of imperialist wars so please knock it off.
@imwexpex as he's already explained in the post, zloirock cannot leave Russia now, so basically a hostage. Do you really want him to go back to jail for publicly denouncing the war?
hey！maybe u need an alipay or a wxpay for chinese front-end！
Thanks for your contribution for Mordern WEB.
+1
Thank you for your work, i cannot believe the amount of hate you get and yet you work on OSS for pennies.
I have no right to say this but i sincerely hope you quit core-js for the sake of your son. Your family comes before everything else, with your skills I'm definitely sure you would get a high paying job at any big company.
Thank you once again for core-js 🙏