Events in _LOC record are not shown in new tab "Place history"

Question

Events in _LOC record are not shown in new tab "Place history"

hartenthaler opened this issue 2 years ago · comments

Hermann Hartenthaler commented 2 years ago

There is an event in my _LOC record:

1 EVEN Überfall durch Graf xxx
2 TYPE Brand
2 DATE 1340

This event is not shown in the "Place history". Other events, for example from INDI records, are shown in the history.

Richard Cissée · Answer 1 · Tue May 03 2022 05:33:30 GMT+0800 (China Standard Time)

The events to be shown here are configurable in the module settings in the control panel.
This is currently restricted to selected types though (one reason for this is the I18N of the respective checkboxes).

In any case, this feature is primarily intended for 'indirect' facts & events (i.e. not those on the _LOC itself, but those on INDI/FAM occuring at the place). I think I wasn't even aware of the possibility to use EVEN on _LOC itself. I guess if you have them, it makes sense to display them in the place history as well, maybe under a separate toggle checkbox.

Hermann Hartenthaler · Answer 2 · Tue May 03 2022 06:12:55 GMT+0800 (China Standard Time)

A separate toggle checkbox would be perfect.
Maybe: "location events" or "place events"?

Richard Cissée · Answer 3 · Wed May 04 2022 02:31:55 GMT+0800 (China Standard Time)

I'm not sure whether it is a good idea at all to allow EVEN on _LOC.

The GEDCOM-L spec defines the subtags via 'regular' EVENT_DETAIL, so you can have a PLAC on this event that is different from the _LOC itself - How is that to be interpreted?

Should such an event show up in the place history of the _LOC (may be confusing) and/or in the place history of the other PLAC?

Hermann Hartenthaler · Answer 4 · Wed May 04 2022 05:37:57 GMT+0800 (China Standard Time)

This is a very good point! The GEDCOM Addendum is not clear at that point. Maybe it should be "EVENT_DETAIL" without a new PLAC or a new _LOC.

Richard Cissée · Answer 5 · Sat May 07 2022 01:17:16 GMT+0800 (China Standard Time)

I think I'll ignore any _LOC:EVEN:PLAC for now, this seems to be in line with the discussion in the GEDCOM-L mailing list so far.

Richard Cissée · Answer 6 · Mon May 30 2022 01:21:43 GMT+0800 (China Standard Time)

Supported in latest release 2.1.4.1.0.

Hermann Hartenthaler · Answer 7 · Mon May 30 2022 19:32:51 GMT+0800 (China Standard Time)

Great! Now the events defined for a shared place are shown. Thank you! Now it is possible to add users defined events to the history of a place.
My observations:

at the moment (2.1.4) it is not possible to add text to the EVEN itself; I think Greg will change this in the next release
at the moment it is not possible in the user interface to add _LOC at _LOC:EVEN:PLAC:_LOC; but you do not support_LOC:EVEN:PLAC anyways
it would be nice to support "indirect" events, e.g. to define "Städtepartnerschaft", for example, to define in the history of a shared place an event that happened at another place; in the same way as you are supporting indirect INDI events

Richard Cissée · Answer 8 · Tue May 31 2022 02:33:35 GMT+0800 (China Standard Time)

at the moment it is not possible in the user interface to add _LOC at _LOC:EVEN:PLAC:_LOC

This is missing here. I don't consider it to be very important - As we have discussed, the entire PLAC under _LOC is dubious.

define in the history of a shared place an event that happened at another place

See above, also I doubt this would a feature used by many users.

Perhaps more useful: We could use _LOC events as more specific 'historic events', i.e. display them as additional facts for individuals with events at the same _LOC during the same time. I'm not a big fan of the historic events in general though, so I may end up not supporting this either. Anyway it should be discussed further elsewhere.

Hermann Hartenthaler · Answer 9 · Tue May 31 2022 23:37:56 GMT+0800 (China Standard Time)

Oh, das ist eine spannende Idee, aber komplex. Bisher gehen die "Historischen Ereignisse" von Zeitpunkten aus und beinhalten keine Orte oder nur indirekt ("Historische Ereignisse in Österreich"). Dein Vorschlag geht vom Ort aus. Angenommen man hätte für sehr viele "gemeinsame Orte (_LOC)" eine Chronik. Dann könnte man für diesen Ort noch einen räumlichen Wirkungsradius definieren, etwa für die Chronik eines Bauernhofes 1 km, für Deutschland 1.000 km.
Dann hat man die Lebenslinie einer Person mit Ereignissen zu konkreten Zeitpunkten an konkreten Orten, etwa "am 1.1.1945 in München" gestorben. Nun müsste man so etwas wie einen Suchscheinwerfer definieren, der alle Ortschroniken unscharf absucht, also etwa "welche Aufzeichnungen gibt es in den Ortschroniken zwischen Dezember 1944 und Januar 1945 im Umkreis von 10 km um München", das würde vielleicht ein Kriegsereignis nahe München am 31.12.1944 zu Tage befördern. Man könnte unschärfer suchen und würde den 2. Weltkrieg finden. Man sollte aber Ereignisse mit kleinem zeitlichen und räumlichen Radius wie "in Augsburg ist am 3..1.1945 das Rathaus abgebrannt" ausblenden, denn dieses Ereignis hat wohl nichts mit dem Ereignis des Todes der Person zu tun. Das wäre aus meiner Sicht richtig großes Kino und würde perfekt zu den "Time Machine" Projekten passen.

Hermann Hartenthaler · Answer 10 · Wed Jun 01 2022 20:53:14 GMT+0800 (China Standard Time)

Greg has added _LOC:EVEN:PLAC:_LOC (see webtrees issue #4454)