MidiInput changes the "Control" value randomly although Teach Trigger is off.

Question

MidiInput changes the "Control" value randomly although Teach Trigger is off.

ScreenDream opened this issue 8 months ago · comments

Describe the bug
I have Midi from a drum machine incoming from Bitwig via LoopMidi (https://www.tobias-erichsen.de/software/loopmidi.html) and several MidiInput nodes are receiving it, each node reacting to a single note. I get this strange behaviour as if the nodes were in semi-constant random learn mode.
I had to put an IntValue in front of each node to fix the 'Control' value, so that the note it receives stays constant.
The Teach Trigger is off...
This is the setup:

Without the IntValue nodes, the Control value would change most times I clicked between the different MidiInput nodes:

Here are the nodes:

MidiInputSetup.txt

This is the used Midi Sequence:

Grummel_110.zip

To Reproduce
Steps to reproduce the behavior:

Run the Midi Sequence above and feed it to Tooll3.8.1 for instance via LoopMidi.
Load above node setup in Tooll3 and run playback. (I have detached the IntValue nodes for testing).
Click between the different MidiInput nodes and change the 'Control' Value manually.
For me, randomly when I click on a different MidiInput node, it's Control value is different from what I set it to.

Expected behavior
I would expect the Control value to stay as I set it when Teach Trigger is not enabled.
Otherwise it's not possible to create a stable setup reacting to notes without workarounds.

Thank you VERY much :-)

Tom

P.S. I found that this not only changes the Control value, but also the Event Type. So my current guess is, that the Teach Trigger is somehow activated when clicking on the node.
I needed to put an IntValue in front of the EventType too to prevent it from reacting to whatever Midi is incoming.

Thomas Mann · Answer 1 · Wed Nov 29 2023 02:11:35 GMT+0800 (China Standard Time)

Thanks for the very concise report. MidiInput is one of the most tested operators in T3 and I'm using is frequently in live performances (using Midi steamed from piano or MidiPipe RPC midi).

So I think in theory the midi-input should should be capable of dealing with 20 or more triggers per frame. The reports sounds like something seems to be broken with the training-mode and LoopBe. I will try to replicate this issue and see how it goes.

Thomas Helzle · Answer 2 · Wed Nov 29 2023 03:54:35 GMT+0800 (China Standard Time)

Thanks, just one note: It's LoopMidi, not LoopBe: https://www.tobias-erichsen.de/software/loopmidi.html

Windows 11 Home, Asus Laptop with AMD Ryzen 9 5900HX with a GeForce 3070.
Using the standalone 3.8.1 Tooll download version.

Thomas Mann · Answer 3 · Sun Dec 17 2023 20:12:28 GMT+0800 (China Standard Time)

Hi @ScreenDream sadly I was unable to import the t3-sample project. Would it be possible to copy it again from t3 and pasting it here?

Another useful test we could do is the make a recording of the incoming Midi-Signals. If you click the Midi-IO icon and then select "Save" in the IO events window, it might help me to narrow down you problem.

Thomas Mann · Answer 4 · Sun Dec 17 2023 21:06:27 GMT+0800 (China Standard Time)

I tried to reproduce the issue as good as I can. I'm not very experienced with BitWig, it took me a while. I tried with LoopBe and LoopMidi. I really can't figure out, what's happening on your side:

I also reviewed the implementation: The training is handled by each [MidiIn] operator individually so currently I don't think that this is related to side effects between those ops. However one thing that is curious: You connected the controller values from the [IntValues] so maybe two inputs (the training and the connected variable) are now fighting over control. Currently that behaviour is not tested.

T3.V3.8.2.Dev.Debug.2023-12-17.13-55-35-1.mp4

I would be great if we could find a way to test this together.

Thomas Helzle · Answer 5 · Sun Dec 17 2023 22:59:21 GMT+0800 (China Standard Time)

Ok, I will try again to see if it still happens and copy the nodes once more, although in your video you seem to have it running?

I only introduced the IntValues to try to keep the values locked, after they were constantly changing, but that didn't help as I found out later, the changing still happened.

I will try to reproduce it here with v3.8.2 Standalone.

Any maybe also important: In my personal use, training almost never makes any sense, since I have quite a lot of gear connected, so often there is some noise going on like the mod-wheel from my old keyboard sending out random values, so just to clarify my intention:
I want to manually set the notes and values and not have any kind of learning overwriting them.

I personally therefore also am not too happy with the nodes coming in in learn mode, that is something I hardly ever want and if, I would prefer to do it manually. Maybe something to think about or ask the community.
In all more elaborate setups or situations, Midi learn isn't working well, since usually there are more signals coming in.

Thomas Helzle · Answer 6 · Sun Dec 17 2023 23:01:25 GMT+0800 (China Standard Time)

I can't really follow your video, so am not sure if it happens or not, sorry.

Thomas Helzle · Answer 7 · Sun Dec 17 2023 23:05:34 GMT+0800 (China Standard Time)

I copied the setup again:

Thomas Helzle · Answer 8 · Sun Dec 17 2023 23:11:25 GMT+0800 (China Standard Time)

Also note, that although the IntValues are connected, the internal values are not the same as those coming in and when I disconnect the IntValues, I have rather random values instead of Notes 36-51 from bottom to top.

Thomas Helzle · Answer 9 · Sun Dec 17 2023 23:38:29 GMT+0800 (China Standard Time)

Ok, tried again and here it happens 100% of the time:

I removed all the IntValues.
I set the inputs to notes 36 from bottom to 51 on top linearly without any midi coming in.
I then started Playback in Bitwig for the Clip.
At this point, all looked fine visually, looking at the output.
But as soon as I selected ANY MidiInput node, that node changed it's Control Value.
When clicking between them, it's pretty much every time I click on another node, it's Control Value is different from what I initially set it to and what it was previously.
But it only happens when I switch between them, not when I stay on one specific node. So that feels kinda weird?
It looks like Midi learn, but that is definitely off in all nodes.

MidiConnect_Tooll_Bugtesting.zip
I connect the Bitwig File - sorry, should have thought of that right away.

If you have any idea what else to try, I'm all ears.

Cheers,

Tom

Thomas Helzle · Answer 10 · Sun Dec 17 2023 23:53:02 GMT+0800 (China Standard Time)

So I saved the dataset and found the dataset.json file in the Tool Folder - I hope it is the right one?:
dataset.zip
Initially I had MidiClock running for another controller I use, as you can see in the file, but turning that off didn't change the problem.

I also tried switching the "Enable Midi snapshot LEDs" toggle in Settings, but it didn't change anything either.

Thomas Helzle · Answer 11 · Sat Feb 17 2024 00:18:49 GMT+0800 (China Standard Time)

I can report that in 3.9.1 this seems to be fixed.
Thanks everybody!
Midi! Yay :-)

Cheers,

Tom