Cascade Framework and OOCSS
jslegers opened this issue · comments
I released a brand new CSS framework last week. I started development on it a year ago because I very much support OOCSS architecture, but found the OOCSS framework lacking in features, active development and default layout.
Cascade Framework is a fully OOCSS framework and combines that with feature based code organisation, which makes it far more modular and flexible than any other CSS framework out there. In spite of being very feature rich, it has a very tiny footprint of between 2,5Kb and 10Kb minified and gzipped, depending on which features you want.
Feel free to use any part you want from the framework and incorporate it into thise one or use it as an alternative. Cascade Framework is MIT licensed.
You can check it out at http://jslegers.github.com/cascadeframework/ .
This isn't appropriate for an issue for OOCSS.
I'm going to close this as it's not really an issue.
@jslegers Hey John, I think this kind of information is better posted to the mailinglist. Github issues are usually a tool for developers to track problems or discuss possible features.
@ mklappstuhl :
There's a mailinglist?
@ mklappstuhl :
It has been posted there for a couple of weeks now. In fact, it's the only place so far where I've received some interesting feedback that allowed me to improve the framework.
I failed to get any feedback from Nicolle, though. I sent her a mail on March 18th as well, also without response.
I didn't even get any response to a mail I sent her in januari 2012 when I asked her for feedback on my first CSS framework.
Nicolle seems so busy it's practically impossible to get her attention.
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So what's my message?
As I also explained to the Inuit guys, my ideal world would be an world where different OOCSS framework developers collaborate on a single OOCSS framework rather than have different frameworks to compete.
Back when I started Cascade Framework a year ago, there was no alternative to Nicolle's project if you wanted an OOCSS based framework. I created Cascade Framework from scratch to have a production ready alternative to OOCSS as feature rich as Bootstrap but far more modular and flexible.
Even though Cascade Framework was built from scratch, it is entirely based on Nicolle's OOCSS philosophy. It also contains an improved version of her grid system (inspired by Chris Coyier's grid structure - http://css-tricks.com/dont-overthink-it-grids/) and a rewrite of the media object integrated into the grid system.
If Nicolle isn't interested in merging both projects, I would suggest she at least considers a rewrite of the grid system... if only I knew how to contact her. She still hasn't responded to anything I said, other than that she doesn't consider the topic appropriate...
This is all getting very frustrating.
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Don't get frustrated. Opensource is always a joint effort and Nicole isn't the only person that can provide you with valueable feedback. As you already said you received some good feedback from the mailinglist. If your initial goal was to improve OOCSS you should have proposed your changes to the project after discussing them on the mailinglist. I'm not actively involved in OOCSS anymore but I think at that stage it might be hard to merge both projects.
Try to get into a healthy discussion with the OOCSS community and ask about their opinions, what they think is the best way to proceed with Cascade and if they see any way to merge these two projects (in case thats what you want).
Opensource can be frustrating when you don't get the feedback you expected to get but don't focus too much on getting it from a project's lead.
EDIT: I dont actively follow OOCSS anymore and my response is mostly motivated by taking away the frustration you experienced while trying to contribute to opensource.
@ mklappstuhl :
My first CSS framework was a merger of Twitter Bootstrap 1 and the jQuery UI CSS framework. Because I needed to respect the architecture of both frameworks as much as possible, I felt restricted in many ways. I abandoned the project after Bootstrap 2 was released because of maintenance requirements and architectural restrictions. At that time I also struggled to gain any community interest, which made my choice still easier.
I decided it's easier to start from scratch and pick elements from various other frameworks rather than starting from an existing framework. Still, OOCSS has been the main source of inspiration for Cascade Framework and shares the same philosophy. With Nicole's project never having left the proof-of-concept stage, I do think it is in need for a breath of fresh air. Some degree of integration with or inspiration by Cascade Framework could be what the project needs.
In the end, I don't really care for how each OOCSS project evolves in the long run. What I do care for mostly, is being able to contribute to an increase of understanding of OOCSS principles (which seems poorly understood by most) and wider support thereof. IMO, both SMACSS and OOCSS are really just labels given to best practices that allow you to use the "cascading" aspect of CSS optimally and as it was originally intended.
Cascade Framework was basicly intended to illustrate how to use these techniques optimally and how they can form the basis of a production ready and feature right framework capable of competing with Bootstrap and Foundation. That's why I labeled my framework "Cascade Framework" and use "Putting back the C in CSS" as its slogan. The direction the project will take, heavily depends on community demand and support.
Unfortunately, I lack the social skills or social network to reach out to the community in a remotely efficient manner and the project is too big to continue maintaining it without any community support.
I can't say much about the technical aspects of your efforts as I'm not working much with CSS.
Unfortunately, I lack the social skills or social network to reach out to the community in a remotely efficient
manner and the project is too big to continue maintaining it without any community support.
Gaining traction is a tough thing. Since OOCSS is such a philosophical thing I'd recommend you to write about it.
Articles are much easier for people to pick up than full-fetched frameworks and their code. Also writing helps to develop a better communication of your ideas and build a reputation as someone who knows what he's talking about.
Ok, again, this is NOT the appropriate venue for this discussion. You need to take it to the mailing list. Please also try not to take over every thread, but start one specifically to discuss your framework. Or one thread per issue regarding your framework. You need to understand that your attempts to get publicity for your framework feel like too much, so people are starting to get upset about it. I think you can correct course and turn it around, because (at least on the oocss google group) there was genuine interest in what you have done.
Also, I'm terrible at email. I don't even email my mother. And you are correct in assuming that right now, I'm too busy to review your framework. But on that google group there are people who have been working with OOCSS for years and years. Good feedback doesn't have to come from me.
The right thing to do next is not to reply here, but rather to go back to the google group.