[VCM] VCM utility moving to legacy in 0.67 timeframe (updated from community feedback)
yuyoyuppe opened this issue · comments
Update from crutkas:
Based on community feedback, we'll be shifting the decision from removing the feature to moving it into a legacy mode (maintenance only). This will still be in the 0.67 timeframe. Our team will only directly address critical bugs, security and accessibility issues.
We'll accept community PRs for enhancements but to date for VCM, has been small in comparison to others which was one of the supporting factors in our decision.
We love the community and feedback. Thank you for helping guide our decision.
What about Win10 users? They don't have the shortcut. I don't think removing the utility will make users happy.
This issue is the place to gather feedback like this.
Wait, but isn't this feature just for apps that support this. It doesn't work for all apps.
Also there is no feature for camera muting.
Chiming in after seeing that a deprecation warning is already in place with the most recent version. I have to be on Windows 10 for a while yet, so this will remove the feature with no replacement for me?
Also, +1 on the other comments (Win 11 shortcut doesn't work for all apps, and no replacement for camera mute).
EDIT:
@yuyoyuppe is this actually gathering feedback, or is this a firm decision? The fact that all the related issues have been closed and linked to this issue makes me think this is a firm decision and not a feedback-gathering issue.
Yeah I'm confused too. I think the choice is quite definitive, so what kind of feedback do you want???
Discussions is the place for either an Announcement or a Poll.
This issue is the place to gather feedback like this.
I use Windows 11 and use VCM a lot when using Zoom. I love the new feature where the display stays on when on mute AND off-MUTE. Please do not deprecate as it is a valuable feature. For Win11, you should look at how you could tap into the mute button displayed in the taskbar to mute/unmute. Currently this only works with MS-Teams but I believe it would VCM could be tweaked to enhance this capablity in Win 11
EDIT: @yuyoyuppe is this actually gathering feedback, or is this a firm decision? The fact that all the related issues have been closed and linked to this issue makes me thing this is a firm decision and not a feedback-gathering issue.
Same feeling. I strongly hope to retain this feature. I am also a win11 user.
This issue is the place to gather feedback like this.
I use Windows 11 and use VCM a lot when using Zoom. I love the new feature where the display stays on when on mute AND off-MUTE. Please do not deprecate as it is a valuable feature. For Win11, you should look at how you could tap into the mute button displayed in the taskbar to mute/unmute. Currently this only works with MS-Teams but I believe it would VCM could be tweaked to enhance this capablity in Win 11
Also I just tested the global shortcut (win+alt+k) in windows 11 and it doe not work with zoom. You get a little pop-up that says "no supported apps in use for mic mute" for 2 secs and it disappears ...more reason NOT to deprecate VCM :)
What about Win10 users? They don't have the shortcut. I don't think removing the utility will make users happy.
Yes. totally agree. We would like to move to Win 11 but corporate world does not move that fast
Against the deprecation. The mic mute shortcut in Windows 11 is an opt-in from app developers, VCM was global and forced.
If nothing else, it could be released as a standalone app so that people don't have to keep old PT versions around if they need it.
You also don't remove Fancy Zones just because Windows 11 has now better window management. Conference Tool is a must have feature for PowerToys. The only app which supports Win + Alt + K is Microsoft Teams.
Lol, just now I wanted to start using VCM on my Windows 10 machine (I'm still on W10 for some more time), just because of the new 'hide when muted' feature. I really would like to use this feature on W10. What's the pain of keeping this feature for just W10 users? It probably requires a check though (code-related, to check whether the user is running W10 or W11, if that piece of code doesn't already exist).
Removing VCM completely because Windows 11 has a similar but worse feature doesn't make any sense, unless devs are planning on dropping support for Windows 10 outright. Might as well remove FancyZones, Image Resizer, Shortcut Guide and probably others since there's similar but worse ways to do some of that in Windows already.
@crutkas @yuyoyuppe If VCM will be removed after v0.67 then it's too soon to actually close all VCM issues already. We can lock issues in the mean time
Look, I'm just going to parrot the same things as everyone else (and add one more):
- Windows 10 exists
- VCM is superior to what Windows 11 has anyway, thanks to it working all of the time instead of contextually
- VCM is actually missing features, like Push-To-Talk and beeps when changing state
I think it is absolutely a mistake to remove VCM from PowerToys, especially as it is one of the major reason to install it in the first place.
Please continue to support VCM for at least Windows 10. This OS is still heavily used, as many PCs cannot be upgraded due to hardware requirements. This OS is also officially supported by Microsoft until Oct 14, 2025, so dropping support of VCM before then seems premature.
@yuyoyuppe
Please don't remove this very useful feature, it's about the only feature I use in PowerToys.
As others already have pointed out the feature you refer to in Windows 11 is not the same, and it only supports Microsoft Teams. As much as Microsoft would like it, not everybody exclusively uses its video conferencing software. Removing this feature will certainly not "force me" over to MS-Teams, but it will take away my incentive to use PowerToys at all.
Strange justification for deprecation; Windows 11's tool is flaky at best and only works with audio. As others have said, FancyZones is a superset of Windows 11's new tiling window manager. Why can't Video Conference Mute remain in PowerToys, given it's a superset of the new, inconsistent audio mute button in Windows 11?
VCM has more uses than just muting in common video calling applications, it's the closest thing to a hardware mute.
Why remove something because it's "not needed" when the entire program is OPTIONAL software...
VCM isn't redundant with the windows 11 feature and is irreplaceable on windows 10
Another vote to keep this feature!
Also hope this isn't removed. I'm on Windows 10, and without a new PC I cannot move to Windows 11 (missing secure boot, TPM ect) and I use the VCM almost daily during my work calls, except for weekends - Even then actually when working on-call. Please don't remove it
Why remove something because it's "not needed" when the entire program is OPTIONAL software
Well ... there's one reason I know of ... VCM hasn't has any significant improvement for a long time, even though there are a number of things that should be improved. I'm gonna omit the argument about installation (file) size.
Why remove something because it's "not needed" when the entire program is OPTIONAL software
Well ... there's one reason I know of ... VCM hasn't has any significant improvement for a long time, even though there are a number of things that should be improved. I'm gonna omit the argument about installation (file) size.
My uneducated guess with that is it since it took so long to get out of being experimental, it'll be a pain to maintain
The decision to remove the VCM feature from PowerToys is in my opinion, not a great choice. The built-in feature in Win11 isn't on par with the one you currently have in PowerToys. only muting the microphone in "supported" apps rather than system-wide is a MAJOR and I quote MAJOR downgrade. If the VCM feature from PowerToys should be removed, then the built-in version of it in Win11 should act just like it, not as a downgrade.
I'm not using Windows 11, so there's no alternative in Windows 10. Windows 11 build-in mic mute is not 100% replacement for VCM either. And, to be frank, VCM is the only thing I'm using PowerToys for, and the only I got started using PowerToys in the first place. I have it bound to a mouse button, I can mute my microphones once an for all without worrying if app has a global mute or not. I have it bound to a button on my wheel, to mute/unmute microphone during gaming, etc. etc. Ditching VCM is a dumbest decision ever, sorry.. hands down!
Lol VCM is like 80% of what I use from PowerToys. Why would you remove it
I agree with what people are saying, VCM is insanely useful to me running on W10. I probably won't be updating to any later versions of PowerToys if this feature is deprecated.
Just no!
您也不会仅仅因为 Windows 11 现在具有更好的窗口管理而删除花式区域。会议工具是PowerToys的必备功能。唯一支持Win + Alt + K的应用程序是Microsoft Teams。
是的，截止到目前。需要开发者自行适配Win11中的相关功能
I wish I had something else to say, that hasn't been said already, but you said that you were accepting feedback on this matter. That makes it sound like there is a chance, given enough feedback, that you might reverse this decision. I use this feature literally daily with PowerToys, and would really appreciate if we could keep it. Even if you took it out of PowerToys and added it to its own standalone Install, that would be preferable vs Axing it entirely. I run PowerToys in both My Win11 and My Win10 Machines, and the Global Mute in Win 11 only seems to work with Teams, so its not really global at all. This feature is much more reliable, and just works. It definitely could use some enhancements, but even if it never got updated again, I much rather have it in its current iteration, then lose it entirely. I love the new additions to PowerToys, and really don't want to have to stop updating just so I can keep this vital function. Please Reverse course or compromise with you user base on this.
I am wondering if there is anyone who believes the Windows 11 "Global" Mute is an effective replacement? Also wondering if PowerToys is going to be mainly focused at Windows 11 Users from this point forward?
Anyways, Appreciate the chance for discussion, I hope there is a chance that the community will be listened to on this one. Thank you!
Adding to the feedback that this needs to stay, even if only on Windows 10 but ideally as it is, the Windows 11 feature is not global, won't work on Zoom and the camera feature is missing anyway.
Please don't deprecate this.
I never used this feature, but I am against removing something if there has not been a suitable replacement for all users. Decide not to keep updating it, maybe, but don't remove it totally. There is no reason for that. As a side note, it is nice to see Windows adding some features that originated in power toys. My wish is just that they would add it in its entirety, not seemingly half-baked...
Voicing my opposition to deprecating this feature. I use VCM and I am currently on Windows 10 for the foreseeable future both at home and at the office. As others have stated, the Windows 11 mute is not a suitable replacement in its current state either.
I also very much rely on VCM for my day to day at work. The option built into windows 11 doesn't support anything I use.
Depreciating this is a mistake.
Perhaps one option would be to fork off the VCM feature and leave further development to volunteers in the community?
I saw one stat the other day that Windows 11 has 20% adoption so far; others reporting between 15-25%. Seems counter productive to deprecate this feature for a clear minority of users?
https://www.techspot.com/community/topics/october-survey-puts-windows-11-adoption-at-just-15-percent-worldwide.277734/
It seems like 100% of the comments are against this decision
If the users are against it and it brings no benefit then the decision should probably be reversed
Both Google Chrome nor MS Edge (sic!) does not support Win11 mute - thus it's not applicable for online meetings...
Why delete the VCM feature, when you can enhance it to work together with the Win11 global microphone mute shortcut (Win + Alt + K).
I mean VCM works perfectly together with my laptop's microphone mute button. Why not enhance VCM to work on specific apps and/or on all apps (even apps that doesn't support the Win11 global mic mute) depending on the settings. Maybe make the fly-out a bit smaller while your ad it. Or make it a notification or something like PowerToys awake, where it is sitting in the taskbar, so it doesn't disturb your screen.
Another request that this feature is retained. Lots of users (particularly corp users) will be stuck on Win10 for some time yet, and the built in Win11 feature is inferior compared to PowerToys VCM.
Its also a weird justification. Win11 also has an alternative to FancyZones, yet that feature isn't being removed from PowerToys (I actually prefer the Win11 implementation of this, but thats my personal preference). Just to clarify I don't think FancyZones should be removed, I'm just pointing out the use of the justification "its now built into Windows" is being used for some features but not others.
Mirroring other comments, removing a widely used feature because an OS less than 20% of us are using has a worse feature is utterly ridiculous.
I won't be switching to windows 11 until you let me turn recommendations off completely, bring back a decent right click menu on the task bar and stop restricting access to the default right click menu meaning a ton of stuff now needs extra clicks.
And don't get me started on combining the battery/networking/volume together!
When windows 11 has feature parity with 10 then you can start removing stuff, not before
Both Google Chrome nor MS Edge (sic!) does not support Win11 mute - thus it's not applicable for online meetings...
So for a supposed universal feature it seems woefully lacking!
Win + Alt + K is NOT a replacement for VCM:
- It's not recognized by all apps (right now I'm using discord and it's not working):
- It doesn't have the option to mute camera
- In some MS Teams if you use it, other people can see that you're muted
- You can't use it as webcam source
It's really nonsense to remove such a great tool, just leave it there and maybe don't update it, but why do you need to remove it?
Personally, I hate the Windows 11 window snapping (it's one of the first things I disabled), I've been using Fancy Zones for years and I really don't understand why Microsoft introduced such a worse (and limited) experience:
- You can't customize the areas
- You can't have multiple setups and shortcuts
- You can't press shift to merge multiple areas together
I hope that it won't get removed too because "Windows 11 already has this feature", otherwise that would probably be my last PowerToys version.
Since I personally use this feature a lot in Windows 10, I think I might stay on v0.66 or whatever last version VCM still exsists on in the future.
I am also on Windows 10 for the foreseeable future as my machine will never support Win 11. Please do not remove this feature.
I personally have two devices I use regularly, and neither are on Windows 11 yet. I am not happy with certain feature changes in Windows 11 so have not made the push until I am satisfied my workflow won't be hindered fully, plus one of these devices is straight up not supported due to the components inside, and I cannot afford to upgrade it at the moment. I do not see a reason for this to be removed as a feature when I can make good use of this feature, as can seemingly many, many people. This is a widely disliked move and if this is asking for genuine feedback and not a pre-determined choice, then please do listen to us all requesting this be kept given Windows 10 has no similar feature and Windows 11's feature is an opt-in implementation, not global.
I am also against removig VCM. The new Windows 11 feature lacks the functionality of VCM.
Nothing more to say that wasn't said already, just don't remove VCM.
Using the Video Mute a lot and also don't want to see VCM going away. W11 feature is not the same.
I feel sad that besides all opposition in the comments, this deprecation sign has been released in the most recent update (I updated just a few minutes ago and found out about this). What's the purpose of getting "feedback" if such feedback is going to be completely ignored? Does the voice of the community matter?
I agree with everything that's been said on VCM and I agree. I'd just like to point out that win11 "compatibility" is just marketing BS so if you like the OS litterally just install it through rufus, it will also pick up the licence no questions asked.
I just started using PowerToys recently, and VCM is the best thing that came with it. Please let us keep it!
I feel sad that besides all opposition in the comments, this deprecation sign has been released in the most recent update (I updated just a few minutes ago and found out about this). What's the purpose of getting "feedback" if such feedback is going to be completely ignored? Does the voice of the community matter?
@duberlyguarnizofuentesrivera Most of this feedback came after the release of the new version.
We'll for sure reevaluate this decision. Altough I don't want to make promises of the outcome.
We don't ignore feedback and the voice of the community matters. Without the community, PowerToys wouldn't be there where it is now.
I am also on Windows 10 for the foreseeable future as my machine will never support Win 11. Please do not remove this feature.
I hadn't even considered users who can't upgrade to Win11 due to incompatibility.
VCM is about 95% of my usage of powertoys. Yes, I use other features but they are situational. Since I am a home office employe I have to mute-unmute mic all the time.
win + alt + k doesnt work system-wide as VCM is, so it is definetly not a replacement.
My still very capable PC is not 'supported' by W11. I love the VCM feature and will have to stop updating this excellent program in order to retain it. Please allow us to continue using this feature in future releases!
Exactly, my laptop will not support Windows 11 and I have no plans to upgrade it in the next 5 years.
Currently, Windows 11 is on less than 16% of windows machines.
Desktop Windows Version Market Share Worldwide
Why on earth would you remove this functionality in 3 releases time?
win + alt + k doesn't work in Google Meet, neither Slack (i am on win 11 22h2).
I am not joking.
Does anyone knows where this shortcut actually works?
Nice. It's 8 days since this issue appeared and... it has so many comments that only 6 issues have more. All those issues are at least 2 years old. 2 years. Dear devs, you really did stir up a hornet's nest with this deprecation. Question is - what will you do now?
MS has much precedent -- you'd almost think it's an unbreakable rule -- to remove software features or apps that are badly emulated or sometimes non-existent in later editions of the OS. Rather than eliminating this particular feature, it should be extended to the camera. Maybe even have a semi-automatic option, to close the mic and/or the cam when no reason to use them exists. I, frankly, don't think it's a dev decision. It's from the exec suite and, as usual, is quite wrong-headed from a user stand-point, but probably will (or maybe already has) bring in revenue in some way. Judging by my experiences as a beta-tester (back when MS actually did betas) all these many comments will be utterly ignored.
I run Windows 10 and I am happy this will get removed. I am aware this is not a popular take, but that feature has been quite buggy for me as I always meant to disable it but couldn't, even when running PowerToys as an administrator (the activation slide bar just kept grey when in admin), and I tried various ways (but maybe you know some more? 🙏 ). Then the overlay would appear once in a while on my screen for a feature I don't want.
Yes, ideally, these issues should be fixed and people able to choose (and disable). I understand the users who want to keep it... and sorry for the unpopular take, I just wish that if the developers continue to support it, they do it properly.
EDIT: For folks downvoting me, my ask is: if you keep supporting it, do it properly please (don't keep buggy tools in -- maybe the dev team don't have enough resources or submitted PRs in which case you can help, hence the decision). I think that's fair.
let's actually give feedback to not remove it and see if they even care.
VCM hasn't had a significant improvement in a while. I think, in the end, one of the reasonable possibilities is that VCM will be "extracted" to a standalone project/app. Maybe then - whoever shall be maintaining it - can focus more on the project and it would get even better.
@shinayser it works only in apps that specifically opt into supporting it. So far that's Teams and maybe Zoom I think. So it's not a replacement at all.
VCM hasn't had a significant improvement in a while.
This is hardly the user community's fault. If the team want to remove the feature, we can't stop them, but they need to be up front with the justification. Is it because Win11 (poorly) replicates the feature? Because the module doesn't have a champion?
I suggest the team get together and get clear on the messaging.
Well, as far as I can see, you will force me not to update to the v0.67...
All devices are on Windows 10.... welp.
VCM hasn't had a significant improvement in a while.
That's actually an argument to KEEP this feature. It doesn't really need to be constantly "improved" if it works (which apparently it does, as evident from all the comments here). Ideally, this is where you want your software to be, in an unchanging maintenance mode that requires little work from the devs and no changes to user experience...
Hi all, I updated the body of this and the title. Great feedback here. I'll paste my update here so anyone that subscribes can read it.
TDLR: we'll keep it in but in a legacy mode.
Tweaked description from above:
Update from crutkas:
Based on community feedback, we'll be shifting the decision from removing the feature to moving it into a legacy mode (maintenance only). This will still be in the 0.67 timeframe. Our team will only directly address critical bugs, security and accessibility issues.
We'll accept community PRs for enhancements but to date for VCM, has been small in comparison to others which was one of the supporting factors in our decision.
We love the community and feedback. Thank you for helping guide our decision.
Thanks for your wise decision and hard work. Love you guys, love Microsoft.
@crutkas @team. Thank you for actually listening to the community feedback and reversing the decision to depreciate VMC, respect!
I installed Power Toys specifically for VCM feature! ( since then i discovered all the other useful features, but VCM is what i was searching for when i found Power Toys)
It would have been great to have the option to always hide the toolbar (mute indicator). I have been updating the program as soon as every update came, hoping to get this functionality. I was completely surprised when I saw you guys were thinking of removing the feature altogether.
Please, before you freeze development of VCM, is there any way to get the option to turn off the toolbar? :(
I am also against removing VCM. The new Windows 11 feature lacks the functionality of VCM.
Between 2 different Alienware systems that are only 2-3 years old, worth several thousand dollars combined, neither support installing Windows 11, just sayin...
Keep VCM please!!
It is the only reason I use Powertoys, no other application does VCM like Powertoys does!
Between 2 different Alienware systems that are only 2-3 years old, worth several thousand dollars combined, neither support installing Windows 11, just sayin...
@mikekscholz That hurts! Can I ask how come? CPU or TPM? Did you know of that one registry key that (usually) allows to circumvent that?
Between 2 different Alienware systems that are only 2-3 years old, worth several thousand dollars combined, neither support installing Windows 11, just sayin...
bypass it. I am using Windows 11 on 13-year-old HP Compaq 6530s. It runs smoothly.
VCM was the only reason for me to install Power Toys.
In the mean time Power Toys has some other nice features, but VCM is still #1. I would dearly miss it!
win + alt + kdoesn't work in Google Meet, neither Slack (i am on win 11 22h2). I am not joking.Does anyone knows where this shortcut actually works?
I think it only works for teams.
Win + Alt + K 's function, even if implemented in the respective app, is not congruent with VCM'S function, a reliably disabled audio and/or video input on OS level.
I'm, juggling with half a dozen voice and or video comm apps, muting on OS level is that one killer feature I've installed Powertoys for. Setting + remembering hotkeys for each is a nightmare, using the same leads to conflicts. VCM protects both my privacy & my comm partners nerves.
I do agree though this feature belongs into every desktop OS. But, pretty please, as a system-wide input mute.
Please DO NOT remove VCM. VCM and FancyZones are the two killer features in PowerToys. With multiple conference calls every day using multiple apps, VCM is absolutely critical. I can't update to any versions of PowerToys that does not have VCM.
We are not removing per the updated title and description
We are not removing per the updated title and description
Yes, I understand it's deprecated not removed yet. I've also seen how deprecated features tend to get removed soon after they are deprecated. I really don't want that to happen with VCM, since I consider that a critical feature for PowerToys. If PowerToys did not have VCM or FancyZones, I would stop using PowerToys. None of the other features are compelling enough to continue using PowerToys without VCM and FancyZones.
@erosen03 we hear you. We looked at data and areas where we get contributions. Based on feedback here we are not removing it.
I just hope vcm gets its last needed improvements before putting it on ice.
Im launching PowerToys for the first time. I saw this feature. I clicked on the link that says "More information". I expected that it tells me WHY this feature is no longer available. The first post doesn't say that. It seems like its coming off from another discussion or issue but there is also no reference.
@crutkas: Could you please edit the first post and add a small note why this feature is not available or add a link to it? Thank you.
@Symbai, i did update the top description and title. We are not removing it per the updated issue description.
Soo... Now the text in the message in settings is incorrect
So just a few things:
- Glad you guys reverted from removing to maintaining VCM in legacy mode, hoping this continues working for Windows 10 as it has been.
- A briefing about the difficulty faced due to new Windows 11 shortcut might elucidate people who understand things a bit more, as when Google's Android OS made an in built call recording & screening feature they had also blocked the way other third party apps used to do so, I expect similar shenanigans here.
- I'm currently sticking to Windows 10, not because Windows Settings says so but because a lot of stuff I need & use are still mainly compatible with Windows 10.
- I hope people saying they don't see the point of PowerToys without VCM (& 1 or more favourite features) understand this is a open source community project, people make and maintain it out of their own time mostly. I'm sure there were some Microsoft OSS Devs here who also do various important stuff within paid time, but they are going to be far fewer than public contributors.
Thanks, that's my 2 (or 4 I guess) cents on this
Want us all to use teams? I think this feature is extremly important to all Apps, now only teams can work. That is robber
Please don't remove it. One of the best features of Power Toys!
Did anyone ever get this to work with Zoom? It always caused some weird issue for me.
Just wanted to add my voice here that I'm glad this feature isn't being deprecated now. It's one of the features I use most. Like others have said, our corporate laptops probably won't see Windows 11 anytime soon so this is still very much a useful feature. Thanks!
Literally the only thing I use PowerToys for, and it's better than what Windows 11 offers.
Why deprecate it though? Why only reverse your decision partially?
Please don't remove it, my second favorite PowerToys feature!!
Why deprecate it though? Why only reverse your decision partially?
I second this. I guess most people that commented on this just were relieved that this function would not be removed, hence no further comments on the "depreciated" status.
But it's a valid question to ask, why depreciate one of the (subjectively) best features of the Powertoys?
VCM was the only reason for me to install Power Toys. In the mean time Power Toys has some other nice features, but VCM is still #1. I would dearly miss it!
Same here - it's the feature I use most often