[CRITICAL] Bountysource is Insolvent, do not use!
abebeos opened this issue · comments
Main Action
Bounty-Issuers
Activate your Paypal Buyer Protection (if payed within last 180 days), see #1586 (comment)
- you get your money back
- paypal will possibly suspend bountysource, thus new bounties cannot be filed.
Bounty-Workers
- Ask the bounty-issuer to get a paypal refund and send you the money directly
- Example: deepnest-io/Deepnest#21 (comment)
Criminal Liability
Summary.
one can safely assume that bountysource/Blockchain Group embezzles the escrowed bounty funds (e.g. using the money somewhere else, like investing/loosing-it in crypto etc.).
Action is necessary in order to avoid loss of funds.
Your Possible Actions
- stop posting new bounties
- ask for a paypal-refund if it is still time (see #1586 (comment))
- notify other people about this issue
- contact the authorities (see below)
- Act based on Criminal Liability (bountysource continued to receive payments despite stopping payouts since months)
- make some 'drama' on public media
Important to realize
- A cashout should take 1 minute after a bounty-issuer confirms the request.
- Bountysource
delays payments for monthshas stopped paying out cash-outs (since months) - Bountysource has stopped replying to support requests (since months)
This is an abuse of the escrow, essentially an embezzlement.
There are thousands of $ in open bounties (e.g. from IBM), this is really becoming strange here.
Bountysource People
CEO
People
https://github.com/orgs/bountysource/people
On the main videos on website:
Company
Bountysource Inc.
548 Market Street #40189, San Francisco, CA 94104-5401
Parent Company
- https://www.theblockchain-group.com/investor/leadership-governance/
- https://www.google.com/search?q=ALTBG
Regulators
dfpi, USA
Possibly:
Possible Complaint
- https://dfpi.ca.gov/file-a-complaint/
- Escrow Agents/ Escrow Laws
- (though bountysource claims that it's not an escrow service, the services provided are of an escrow nature)
- Escrow Agents/ Escrow Laws
French Financial Authorities
(received via email)
I suggest that you contact the French Financial
Authorities through their official "whistle blowing" portal:
https://www.amf-france.org/en/forms-and-declarations/whistleblowing
https://www.amf-france.org/fr/formulaires-et-declarations/lanceur-dalerte-0
and report that The Blockchain Group cannot pay their financial obligations.
That's the regulatory body for The Blockchain Group.
Unpaid
- me, $1000 - 2023-05-11
- $4000, 2023-03
- $139, 2023-05-19
- $1100, 2023-03
- $150, 2023-04-29
- $190, 2023-05-31
Further Issues
Special Case:
@FrancescoBorzi is complaining about Bountysource here:
Today, he has a role within bountysource (see videos) :
But bountysource still abuses/embezzles the escrowed funds.
Please add my case to your list:
This is a serious problem. I'm not exactly a rich man, and I'm going to have to find another way to help pay to feed myself. I wish the best for all others in my situation!
Hi, please add these bounties to the list, they were collected but not cashedout (even though the request is pending all the way from march):
ouch. maybe we should put up a bounty to bring them to justice and finance a law suit
Make sure in your PayPal resolution centre, you view each dispute and escalate to PayPal, otherwise all the seller needs to do is ignore the dispute and the case is closed without resolution.
https://www.paypal.com/disputes/
Here is the message I sent
Seller is insolvent, so unable to respond and unable to stop collecting funds. Hence need for PayPal to intervene, issue refunds, and block the seller.
Summary of the situation here:
https://github.com/bountysource/core/issues/1586
Listing of complaints here:
https://github.com/bountysource/core/issues
They are old members. The first one was a cofounder.
Still listed as "members", so they have some admin rights => they can act.
this french tbg company has no shame.
Possibly shutting down their paypal so they can't get more money in could do something.
They are old members. The first one was a cofounder.
Still listed as "members", so they have some admin rights => they can act.
@abebeos , I'm sorry you're having issues. I'm merely listed as a member on GitHub with no other roles or access, and even if I did I would be unable to help because payments are not processed through GitHub. I'll say this publicly for transparency, but I have just manually removed myself from the organization (something that should have happened many years ago, but no one ever bothered). Cervator is also an old member and there's no use in bothering him.
It's true I'm one of the cofounders, but the company has changed hands more than once since then and I have no information about the current owners other than what is publicly known. Again, I'm sorry you're having payment issues. Back in the day I personally handled all payments on my own time, even when I had other full-time obligations, because I believed in the platform. Hopefully the new team responds and resolves your issues quickly.
Back in the day I personally handled all payments on my own time, even when I had other full-time obligations,
Oh my, the usual bountysource tenor. Like they (you) do/did us a favor (they don't, they get 10%).
I would be unable to help
You could have helped, e.g. by adding a note on the repository readme's.
but I have just manually removed myself from the organization (something that should have happened many years ago, but no one ever bothered).
All good, possibly the best action.
@Cervator, before you (possibly) leave the bountysource github organization, please try to add a note to the central repository (https://github.com/bountysource/core), thus other devs do not fall into the trap. The system still accepts new bounties.
Oh hey, this is a blast of sadder than usual nostalgia. And a @rappo sighting! Good to see you still alive. I'm in a similar boat though - I'm still listed as a member (will fix) but with no special access on GitHub, I just checked, along with some old admin links. The old Slack still exists but appears decidedly abandoned.
The wiki seems to be open though, even to the point that somebody dropped a spam page in there - I deleted it since I could, I did care about this place once upon a time.
It does seem quite clear that this project has become a dangerous piece of flotsam. I wish I could do more but it seems we are limited to GitHub issues and the wiki - and the latter was really only ever an after-thought if I recall correctly.
In case it does matter I just stuck a warning footer in there for some minimal visibility. Good luck @abebeos and others. I wish this didn't quite turn out the way it did.
For what it is worth as a member (now no longer) I did get to see the very limited member list - two names I vaguely recall as having contributed years ago like myself as a volunteer, and one I didn't recognize which is now the only owner: @soheilsk aka Last Persian - https://github.com/soheilsk
Not sure if that'll lead to a ping or any other sleuthing but it is what little I could see.
@rappo , @Cervator , thank you for your quick response, I'll leave you out of it now.
@ all: after a bit of thought:
-
going the paypal-dispute (bounty issuers) / complaint (bounty workers) route should at least stop the still working bountysource-site from accepting new bounties.
-
Complaint at authorities still seems to be the only way to get the money out (if the mother company is still solvent).
Is this still an issue people requesting payouts are facing? I just solved a $100 bounty and I'm looking to cash out, now I'm a bit worried it won't work.
I think the site has gone dark now, login page doesn't load. Welp.
nowadays, it became easy for ordinary companies and persons to scam and fool people.
Previously, only the goverments could do such without getting punished.
the TBG owners are acting really shameless way. They do not even try to explain the issue and if they are trying anything other than
"Just ignore and delay until they forget."
They will keep ignoring us unless someone sues them.
https://www.theblockchain-group.com/investor/news-financial-information/
Puteaux, le 28 août 2023. The Blockchain Group (code ISIN : FR0011053636, mnémonique :
ALTBG)
augmentation de capital avec maintien du droit préférentiel de souscription des actionnaires qui
s’est déroulée du 4 au 23 août 2023.
Puteaux, August 28, 2023. The Blockchain Group (ISIN code: FR0011053636, mnemonic:
ALTBG)
capital increase with maintenance of the preferential subscription rights of shareholders who
took place from August 4 to 23, 2023.
So what the problem
why they are not willing to pay <10-20k $?
anyone who is living in Europe could sue them. it has court fee
https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/dealing-with-customers/solving-disputes/european-small-claims-procedure/index_en.htm
https://www.linkedin.com/in/pascalchevalier/
He is one of the main persons behind and investors.
closing, this issue has done it's work
about getting money back, possible solution here:
reopening, for the case that anyone want's to do something with this issue.
Note that I do not monitor/follow the issue anymore.
Another follow-up:
Were you backer?
Bounty-Recipients can ask the bounty-issuers/backers to ask for a paypal refund (this is for 180 days back).
If the bounty issuers are honest, the bounty-workers can get their money then from them directly.
I just realize that my 2 bounties are not 180 days old, so I'll try it myself this way.
The parent company, The Blockchain Group, appears to be on the verge of bankruptcy.. They have announced that their stock stops trading on December 1, 2023.
"In view of the financial difficulties encountered by the Company, in particular its financial situation the Company is actively seeking short-term financial resources that will allow it to
to ensure the continuity of its operations in fiscal 2024. The Company has initiated
discussions with its main creditors on the one hand in order to reach an agreement with them to the effect that restructuring its debt and, on the other hand, with potential new investors with a view to a..."
To anyone looking for another platform to post bounties, I'd like to suggest our bounties site: https://community.sphinx.chat/bounties.
It's bitcoin-based but we also offer a way for people to pay for bounties outside of our platform.
If you're open to it, it may be worth while to also consider using bitcoin (although I completely understand any hesitancy and resistance to it). But you'd be able to raise funds in Bitcoin without using a custodian and using multisig where ownership can be split across multiple people. Then you can easily transfer it to hunters all over the world.
If any of this is something that interests any of you, please feel free to reach out. It's terrible to see FOSS projects get rugged and I'd love to help out in any way that I can.
We had around 2k USD of pending bounties from random contributors on the website
https://github.com/eried/portapack-mayhem
Sadly it might be too long for anyone to recover our money from paypal.
@eried, have backers tried?
Many were robbed, including me. But some of people who had PayPal ones were able to get.
try your best to get your money
@quickwritereader I posted a message to warn the backers, but it might be too late. Our bountysource was not very active (luckily) but over the years it had a considerable amount of accumulated small contributions which lately failed to get released and now reading this, makes sense, why.
Personally I contributed only around 100 USD (I am pretty sure most backers put similar amounts)
but this is 2 years ago, so no luck opening any dispute.
is there a good alternative to bountysource?
The Newpipe team released an article earlier this october announcing a loss of around $6000 to Bountysource.
https://newpipe.net/blog/pinned/announcement/we-have-lost-access-to-bountysource/
Just to report another case, Bountysource did not pay out $3,500 on the following project, although it said it did on the website.
IfcOpenShell/IfcOpenShell#1153
https://app.bountysource.com/issues/95048565-make-construction-drawing-generation-like-really-really-awesome (this link probably doesn't work anymore)
I'm a maintainer of Gitpay (https://gitpay.me/), which is entirely Open Source. We don't retain the bounty funds. I've been building and working on the platform for five years already.
I'm a maintainer of Gitpay (https://gitpay.me/), which is entirely Open Source. We don't retain the bounty funds. I've been building and working on the platform for five years already.
What do you mean you don't retain the bounty funds? Are funds held in escrow until the project is completed?
Basically, why is Gitpay better than (Bountysource)?
Find alternative(s) to Bountysource go-gitea/gitea#29331
@kdumontnu Yeah, the funds are retained for Credit Card payments until the issue is merged, and the author can automatically claim the bounties based on the criteria (issue closed and associated PR merged). We will not possess the funds paid by the sponsors.
We have better payout support, we're fully Open Source, and we provide Bonuses for solving issues from Gitpay itself.
Bountysource People
CEO
People
https://github.com/orgs/bountysource/people
On the main videos on website:
Special Case:
@FrancescoBorzi is complaining about Bountysource here:
Today, he has a role within bountysource (see videos) :
But bountysource still abuses/embezzles the escrowed funds.
Please read my clarification about me not having anything to do with Bountysource: #1597